Whistleblower Katharine Gun and journalist Martin Bright are interviewed for their new movie Official Secrets for the film's LFF screening. These folksbecause there are two legal ways you can go to war in international law. As of 2019[update] she has lived in Turkey with her husband and daughter for several years. KATHARINE GUN: Mm-hmm. How am I possibly going to do that? He was Kurdishhe is Kurdish. They live on a smallholding, renting a house, in rural Turkey. In a way, President Trump has been a gift for the previous president, George W. Bush, because it has really rehabilitated his reputation. [3], Katharine Harwood moved to Taiwan in 1977 with her parents, Paul and Jan Harwood. My GCHQ career obviously came to an end. Which agency was it? Of course he does. AMY GOODMAN: Were going to leave it there, and I want to thank you all so much for being with us, Katharine Gun, the whistleblower; Observer journalists at the time, Martin Bright and Ed Vulliamy; and Gavin Hood, who is the director of Official Secrets, the story of Katharine Gun revealing the lies that led to the Iraq War on both sides of the ocean, in Britain and the United States, and led to so many deaths. Dr. Almost a million Iraqis. We knew for sure. When you think, Oh, well, I wish we tried hard with the Americanwith our American colleagues. Were also joined by Martin Bright and Ed Vulliamy, the two journalists who reported Guns revelations in The Observer newspaper, at a time when the paper was editorially openly supporting the Iraq invasion. AMY GOODMAN: What was it called? AMY GOODMAN: And did they say they were going to charge you with the Official Secrets Act? We can all have a view on Saddam Hussein and whether he should be deposed or not. A film, Official Secrets, has been made of her story. I heard things that stuck. How many times has she seen the film now? [12] At the time, the reasons for the Attorney-General to drop the case were murky. Inside the world of ministers secrets, Iraq war whistleblowers trial was halted due to national security threat, Permanent Record by Edward Snowden review the whistleblowers memoir, 'They wanted me gone': Edward Snowden tells of whistleblowing, his AI fears and six years in Russia, I had a moral duty: whistleblowers on why they spoke up, 'You've caused an international incident': how my work mistake came back to haunt me, Fortheir eyes only: the secret stories ministers dont want you to read, Take it from a whistleblower: Chilcot's jigsaw puzzle is missing a few pieces, Hollywood beckons for whistleblower who risked jail over Iraq dirty tricks. AMY GOODMAN: And your feelings at that time, Katharine? Our Daily Digest brings Democracy Now! And if you are working in government, make sure that you are really clued up about what is going on, and think very hard where your responsibility lies.. Whats the defense? No need to prove anything further. to your inbox each morning. She was 27. Good for him. Her whistleblowing was not enough to change the path of history, of course, and her last-gasp act of courage was all but forgotten in the brutal shock and awe of war. At first they dont name you, but then they do. There are plenty of opportunities here for other journalists to take up the baton and find out what really happened. ED VULLIAMY: Well, he was the political editor at the time, who was giving me a lot of trouble over getting my cooked intelligence story into the paper. KATHARINE GUN: Yeah. And they said they would try their best. At the time, Katharine Gun was working for Britains Government Communications Headquarters, known as GCHQ. You didnt know what would happen with this memo you leaked to someone, who gave it to someone, but you knew you felt it wasI mean, you werent part of a movement. Gun was asked by Special Branch officers why she had chosen to act as she had. Katharine Gun, a shy and studious 28-year-old who spent her days listening in to obscure Chinese intercepts, decided to tell the world about a secret plan by the US government to spy on the United Nations.. She had received an email in her inbox asking her and . [6] She left teaching in 1999, and after some temporary jobs, finding it difficult to find work as a linguist, Gun applied to GCHQ in 2001, after reading a newspaper advertisement for the organisation. Mr. Davies, in his book, has done more recently, AMY GOODMAN: And he said to you, Martin, at least in the film, This will jeopardize our access.. MARTIN BRIGHT: Not until around the time of the trial. And all of a sudden his safe, you know, this civil servant wife is in a whole lot of bother that he never expected to have to deal with. I mean, really, these people need to be held accountable for what theyve done. As of 2020[update] Gun lives in Turkey and Britain. There are 15 members of that council, and there are these nonpermanent members who could swing the vote in favor of an invasion of Iraq in U.N. resolution. We could haveyou know, you always have regrets, dont you? The law requires you to. The film, Official Secrets, comes out officially at the end of August. . Instead, Jake suffered a fatal bicycle accident. How dodo they join the dots? I am currently reading a book about how to blow the whistle. In a BBC interview with Jeremy Paxman, she said that she had not raised the matter with staff counsellors as she "honestly didn't think that would have had any practical effect". He succumbed to his wounds and Knight dragged his body downstairs, skinned him, and hung his body from a meat hook in the living room. I mean, this has been going on for a number of years, and it always sort of ended up kind of petering out, so, GAVIN HOOD: Other people had approached you before. And I called Jed back, and I said, This is an amazing way into how we got into the Iraq War, thatwhy isnt it better known? And he saidI said, Could I come and meet Katharine? And she said, Gavin, I dont want to wear makeup. So how am I, with my tiny team of researchers, going to do anything like that? And so, its one of those moments where you realizeI mean, the chill went up my spine, like I thought, Ive got to get out of here. So, yes, that was not a good moment, yeah. Iraq now, nightmare. I call them the Usual Suspects., She thinks, given the current state of politics, that she might start to speak out more. Starring Elle Fanning in the title role, the show follows the rise of Catherine as she arrives in Russia as a teenager, naively excited for her arranged wedding night with Peter III (Nicholas . Guns leak was perhaps the last example of whistleblowing that involved a red telephone box and a photocopier, rather than downloads. I work for the British people. In its absence, Tony Blair won another election in 2005. So, GCHQ had been aware of this for over 24 hours, and they were waiting for everybody to come back into work on Monday, and they were prepared. . You dont know who the GCHQ person is. diamond a ranch new mexico hunting using the weber burger press what does it mean when a willie wagtail follows you. It is loud, clear, confident, creative, interesting. I mean, MI6 couldnt do that. She then went on to get a Masters degree in Global Ethics. And we worked five, six hours every day. Katharine Gun is a British Linguist and Iraq War Whistleblower. And I had already not been able to eat for about 24 hours. Just trying to figure out what to do next. And we still dont know why the British government dropped the case. You think everyone sees on your face that youre the leaker. He was going in every week to basically prove that he was still resident or that they could pinpoint where he was. However, during one such trip, her husband was detained by the authorities. Katharine 'Kay' Griggs knows what it's like to have a gun pointed in her face. AMY GOODMAN: And, Katharine, describe that moment, when you come into court in this very dramatic waybut this is not just a feature film; this is your lifeand youre facing years in prison, your husband not there because youre concerned he will become the story as a refugee in Britain. As Katharine Gun told me during our "Salon Talks" conversation, being played by Keira Knightley in a movie was approximately the last thing she ever thought might happen to her. delivered to your inbox every day! Gun was defended by Alex Bailin KC. And I can remember sitting back and thinking, This guy is not all there. You know, I felt totally at ease in her company. And so, theyre first prize was get the United Nations Security Council to pass a resolution saying that we, as a collective United Nations, are going to take out Saddam Hussein. Does she tell her story when she meets new people? And so, I immediately went home, and Iand at the time, actually, well, my dad was staying with me, because it was Chinese New Year, and he was back from Taiwan, and he was supporting me, so he was at home. But deep inside me, I didnt feel guilty. Katharine Gun was a young specialist working for Britains Government Communications Headquarters when she exposed a highly confidential memo that revealed the United States was working with the United Kingdom to collect sensitive information on United Nations Security Council members in order to pressure them into supporting the Iraq invasion. Im sure that what Katharine felt when in 2010 we found out that Lord Goldsmith had declared the war, in his advice, illegal, must have been pretty painful for Katharine to hear, as it was for me when Congress said, I think around 2004, '05, we knew, actually, there were no weapons of mass destruction. Then we see her become this woman who's starting to really know herself and starting to try and identify her own feminine being and trying to find her own place in the boardroom as a woman, as an entity, as a sister and . Powered by WordPress.com VIP. And they had already taken him down into the custody suite, which is, by the way, where I had been before, Gun revealed. UPDATED with latest attendees, livestream link: President Joe Biden and First Lady Jill Biden, as well as Vice President Kamala Harris and Second Gentleman Doug Emhoff, will attend Saturday's . And he says, I need toso, Im interviewing Ben in a pizza shop, right? Although Katharine Gun returned to the public eye in 2019 for the promotional press events for Official Secrets, she has largely retreated from the medias gaze since. Strange concept, but you do. AMY GOODMAN: So then you have Scotland Yard taking over. The war did not end when George W. Bush said, Mission accomplished. It was only just beginning. The diplomats were due to vote on a second United Nations resolution on the prospective 2003 invasion of Iraq. So, lots of leads there. I would love to know. You cannot talk to anyone about your intelligence work. I was the U.S. correspondent indeed, but very soon I was in Najaf, Nasiriyah, Fallujah, unembedded, watching this bloody carnage, thisthe implosion of this country. AMY GOODMAN: Were you actually in the car with him, waiting for him to go in for his check-in? In this episode of Schenck Talks Bonhoeffer, TDBI Founder and President, Rev. And then, on Tuesday, they called me in, and I went in. During the season 5 finale of American Idol, Katharine McPhee was named the runner-up against winner Taylor Hicks. And Mr. Ahmed is now the editorial director of the BBC, the revered BBC. And when he didnt come out, I was panicking, you know, and I ran inside. MARTIN BRIGHT: Well, I mean, I think at that time, you knowwe knew, I suppose, by that point, that our paths were destined to cross. Gun, too, had expressed relief that the events are now part of a broader discussion due to the film and that she can finally talk about it without stress. 2023 Cinemaholic Inc. All rights reserved. KATHARINE GUN: Devastation. And so, we talked about motherhood and all sorts of things, but I was just so impressed with how intelligent she was and how incisive she was in getting to the crux of the matter. [14] On the day of the court hearing, Gun said, "I'm just baffled in the 21st century we as human beings are still dropping bombs on each other as a means to resolve issues. I wanted to go to the making of the filmKeira Knightley, did you meet with her?and also ask you, Gavin, about Keira taking on this role. Indeed, your point about Bush is right. All I want to do is feel the emotions that this young woman felt, and dont want to be fussed over. And it was great. And they had already taken him down into the custody suite, which is, by the way, where I had been before. Keira Knightley as Katharine Gun in the film Official Secrets. MARTIN BRIGHT: Yeah, who wrote the memo. [23] Daniel Ellsberg praised the swiftness and importance of Gun taking action, saying it was in some ways more significant than his own whistleblowing on the Vietnam War. [5] While waiting to hear whether she would be charged, Gun embarked on a postgraduate degree course in global ethics at the University of Birmingham. Gun was outraged after she learned - as part of her job with GCHQ - that the United States wanted . AMY GOODMAN: That was 2014. All rights reserved. But you areis this part of the film true, where you have the authorities come in and say, Were questioning everyone, because someone here did this.. And the potential chink in the Official Secrets Act we had found, which could have become a defence for others, the defence of necessity [of speaking up to save imminent danger to life], it wasnt tested in court.. Its millions. You werent particularly worried. It cost Gun, who now lives in Turkey with her husband and daughter, her job. And the case was dropped. Anyway. KATHARINE GUN: My MP, yes, at the time. But jokes aside, the reason she said to methe reason I constantly find myself going. And at the end of the Q&A, I went to try and find him, and hed gone. Yes and no. I think a lot of our current issues go back to that time. So, they immediatelywell, first of all, my manager said, What would you like to do? And I said, Well, pfff, what can I do? You know, we have to tell internal security. Theres no doubt. Rob Schenck, introduces newly named Senior Fellow Dr. Joel Looper and his new book, Bonhoeffer's America: A Land without Reformation. Domination, Sing Your Song: Remembering Harry Belafonte, Who Used His Stardom to Help. And so, but theres another irony about the position of the attorney general, which is, the director of public prosecutions in Britain generally has real autonomy in deciding what cases to prosecute, except in cases of the Official Secrets Act, when he or she must get the authorization of the attorney general to prosecute. Katharine Teresa Gun (ne Harwood; born 1974) is a British linguist who worked as a translator for the Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ). Ben Emmerson is. Gun is a singular presence, and she answers with characteristic care, speaking slightly haltingly, weighing her words. AMY GOODMAN: Who is played in the film by? And the situation, the toxic abomination of Brexit in our country, has sort of rehabilitated Blair in a sort of bizarre way. AMY GOODMAN: Gavin, introduce us to Ben Emmerson. AMY GOODMAN: But what caused you to say no? And its sothe nonpermanent members, who realized they were being hacked and their personal things were beingin order to try and blackmail them into a vote. Strange Hollywood person. If we found other information, it may have been different, but this information seemed to show us that wed been lied to. Film-makers generally like to glamorise newspaper offices, making them All the Presidents Men hothouses of high-level argument and intrigue. Katharine Gun at Bow Street magistrates court in 2003 after being charged with breaching the Official Secrets Act. AMY GOODMAN: And so, you had to sell this. [20] After the charges against her were dropped in 2004, she found it difficult to find a new job. GAVIN HOOD: Well, its interesting you say that, because one of things Keira said to me that drew her to the script was, first of all, that she didnt have to wear a corset, because she does all these period dramas. I was aware I was doing something I wasnt supposed to be doing. AMY GOODMAN: Now, he goes in for a regular check-in. By Ben Davies BBC News Online political staff at the TUC in Brighton There is something about Katharine Gun that makes her seem an unlikely candidate for whistleblowing. So, you are there standing alone in the dock. What was he telling Blair until the 11th hour, where he changed his mind, it seems, at the 11th hour, and said, 'Oh, well, you can justify on the basis of Resolution 678 from 1991,' this fringe idea that no decent international lawyerand Im an ex-lawyerbelieves to be even remotely sensible?. "[22], In January, 2019, the film Official Secrets, recounting Gun's actions in 2003, received its premiere at the Sundance Film Festival, with Keira Knightley playing Gun. I mean, youre talking about the editorial leadership of The Observer, the editor-in-chief. "[12] In May 2019 The Guardian stated the case was dropped "when the prosecution realised that evidence would emerge that even British government lawyers believed the invasion was unlawful. ", "US plan to bug Security Council: the text", "Let's free the Official Secrets Act from its cold war freeze | Alex Bailin", "Leaking or briefing? The little-told story of British intelligence whistleblower Katharine Gun leaves a trail of unanswered questions worth probing, even 16 years later, . Did everything change? Some of the information that would have been revealed at her trial, in particular Lord Goldsmiths conflicting arguments as to the legality of the invasion, did not fully emerge until the publication of the report of the Chilcot inquiry in 2016. And looking back, its easy to be nostalgic about how things were with Bush and Blair, because it looks like these people were easier to hold to account. So, from a dramatic point of view, you have someone whos just going to their job every day, as most of us do, happens to be a spy working for GCHQ, but could have been a person working for an accounting firm or Enron or Boeing or any other organization, who sees something that is simply wrong, sees, you know, and says, GAVIN HOOD: and says, Im going to speak up.. AMY GOODMAN: And you actually said you hadnt heard of Katharine Gun at the time, which is interesting in itself, because the story, in a sense, was almost killed for a bit. Katharine Gun (ne Harwood), 47, is married to Yasar Gn, a Turkish Kurd, with whom she has a 13-year old daughter. Her whistleblowing was not enough to change the path of history, of course, and her last-gasp act of courage was all but forgotten in the brutal "shock and awe" of war. What I did is a very unusual thing to do, because the results are not generally good. But yeah, I mean, I was hugely impressed. We do not accept funding from advertising, underwriting or government agencies. This is, sadly, a story of failure. AMY GOODMAN: And so, you decide to go back and revealwho was it that was questioning you? Some people have very low tolerance of wrongdoing, whether it is fiddling expenses, or whatever. Guardian Australia acknowledges the traditional owners and custodians of Country throughout Australia and their connections to land, waters and community. Youre, KATHARINE GUN: And then I was taken away. She grew up in Taiwan, where her father had gone to teach, and her accent is hard to place. But a part of me thought: Damn we could have put the war on trial. Don't let 'the intelligence and the facts be fixed around the policy' this time. AMY GOODMAN: Works for the attorney general. Thats our job. I think youll find hes hiding in plain sight. And there was a dramatic hush in the audience. GAVIN HOOD: Well, for me, what I love about the story is actually, on the one hand, its got this huge global political relevance, and it resonates still today. And yeah, it was absolutely terrifying. And so I did. The trials and tribulations of daringly telling the truth and facing its consequences must certainly not be a light burden to bear. The Observer team in a scene from the film, with Matt Smith, front, as home affairs editor Martin Bright. Soon after, they moved to Turkey in 2011, and for the most part, the family has stayed away from the public eye. Macdonald stated that Gun would not have received a fair trial without the disclosure of information that would have compromised national security. Well, this article is all about the Katherine Johnson childhood, Katherine Johnson husband (s), Katherine Johnson family and Her career in NASA. AMY GOODMAN: And so, what did you do when they said, Were going to take each one of you into a room.. Starring Kiera Knightley, Matt Smith, Matthew Goode, and Ralph Fiennes in pivotal roles, the film is one of the more accurate cinematic explorations of real-life instances. I mean, I dont think we imagined that we would be still friends and still talking about it 14, 15 years later. Something like. Do you think shed meet with me? Because I think we were both a little skeptical of each other. You didnt have that kind of support. AMY GOODMAN: The San Francisco Film Festival. Brights story was news to Gun herself, to a large degree. MARTIN BRIGHT: Yeah, I must say, when I found out how young she was, it did take me by surprise, and the fact that she was a translator. . So, Lord Goldsmith decides to prosecute Katharine Gun. GAVIN HOOD: This amazing lawyer, with great dignityElizabeth Wilmshurst, whos in the movie, Ralph Fiennes playing Ben Emmersonhas the cup of tea with her. Of course I did, yes. Shes ordinary. Inside the world of ministers' secrets", "Iraq war whistleblower's trial 'was halted due to national security threat', "Official Secrets: A Conversation With Director Gavin Hood", "Official Secrets review Keira Knightley excels in Iraq war whistleblower drama", "15 Years Later: How U.K. Whistleblower Katharine Gun Risked Everything to Leak a Damning Iraq War Memo", "Film on British whistleblower's life to hit Turkish theaters", "Whistleblowerin Katharine Gun - "Ich wrde es wieder tun", "Sundance 2019: Premieres Include Harvey Weinstein Docu, Mindy Kaling, Dr. Ruth, UK Spies, Miles Davis & Ted Bundy", "Daniel Ellsberg speaking about Katharine Gun", In 2003, This U.K. Whistleblower Almost Stopped the Iraq Invasion.
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